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the RUBBER PANTIES'R'US discussion thread, Talk about it here; updates, share ideas ask questions, etc
Over 150 YEARS OF RUBBER PANTIES -- Soup to Nuts: AND Over 3 Dozen After-Dinner Conversations

by

AKA@ DAILY DIAPERS and elsewhere, "Little Christine"

1. Introduction: What, Who and Why

NOTES: "Rubber panties" runs the gamut from a hated necessity to a "gotta have!". This page is the same, it can be anythiing from an occasional drop-in for practical reasons to a no apologies, full-on mind control cult. THAT is YOUR call. This is a replacement for an earlier item that was damaged by a malware attack and has become obsolete. It is the most complete presentation that you will find in one place; if not at all. Written for the newbie to the intermediate level, it is based on over 7 decades of the authors's experience, common knowledge over time, and with copious amounts of material from other sources, often by direct link and link to search resutls if there are several sources listed so you can see them all for yourself. So even experts may find a few things they did not know. And it gets updated. You will be able to learn; a good deal of background information (history, what is, etc), use, how to evaluate, where to buy, how to care for and clean rubber pantie and join a conversations, read and write reviews and related material: All from one page. Note to those interest in the fetish section (6. FUN & GAMES IN THE WORLD OF RUBBER PANTIES): Any discussion here is kept away from the gross, sordid, salacious or overtly sexual (So all the 14 year olds or so-called "adults" that have not gotten beyond that stage, can leave now). That means No scat discussion or items like enema or suppositories; any fecal matter is kept to medical discussion only. No adult sex discussion or items like dildos or plugs. Nothing that excludes Little Girl or includes "daddy [DD/LG is adult sex anyway]". Medical items are discussed only in a medical context as they apply to rubber panties. Sissy is limited to non-adult-sex matters: Save the SPH or "spit or swallow" for elsewhere. It is a much longer page because it offers much more as its title and subtitle promise. It is being maintained and updated, which means new material is added and some tweaking for a better "workflow". A table of contents gets you near to where you want to go faster than scrolling up and down and plenty of "back to contents" links get you back to that table for your next go; which means it changes so CHECK BACK PERIODICALLY. There is some interactivity here so if you wish to have a review listed, PM (if this gets beyond DD, I may have to use my email) me. The review must be relavant and detailed enough to be usefull to a reader. It should include the feel of the material, purchase page and things like that as is explained further down or use my reviews as a model. So that you need not keep coming to Daily Diapers to read or use this page, save a link to here and keep it where you wish You can take it to otner places like DD if you wish. RUBBER PANTIES'R'US aims to be the biggest, best and most widespread single place for all things rubber panties 99% of what you could wan or need to do, or imagine doing about rubber panties, you can do from this page. The "shopping plaza" is after the reviews so that you will have a chance to read everything you could want to know BEFORE you buyI whish I had this a dozen years ago; now you do. YOU ARE FREE TO PUT A LINK AT OTHER FORUMS WHERE YOU THINK THIS MATERIAL IS USEFUL

WHAT ARE "RUBBER PANTIES"? Before anyone gets snarky or pedantic, look at the etymology; espcially "people also ask". "Rubber pant(ie)s" has been the Real World generic term for baby panties made of traditional waterproof material: rubber and vinyl (and even some of the early woven waterrproof fabrics) from the beginning, some 4-3/4 generations ago, to AT LEAST 2007: and is still used in some posts on Ebay. If you doubt that, look at the entry in the search bar for yourself - Jan 11, 2022. It has become "correct through usage"; like "kleenex' and 'Coke', and is perfectly good except for when you MUST make the distinction for medical, technical or other specific reasons. Other terms are "baby pant(ie)s" and "baby bloomers", and more recently, RUBBER DIAPER, but that is not the "rubber diaper" my aunt threatened to put on me when I was 5. This has been simply extended into adult size panties that serve the same purpose. Lacking a fly front, they are panties or knickers: . Click on either of the two pictures below to see the layette from which they were taken and pay attention to what they were called in 1946 episode of THE LIFE OF RILEY


from a 1950 Sears Catalog layette: Yes; they ARE panties

I suspect that not callling them panties has something to do with not antagonizing littl boys with whom they sometimes must be used or just verbal shorthand: And only the really pedeantic pseudo-hipsters call them "diaper covers". On the other hand, from the same 1950 Sears catalog layette discription

Just what made a "diaper cover" different from rubber panties I have no idea unless it was being made of waterproofed textile

SandraLyn, the " parent franchise" of all things related to Little Christine has its roots in the "real world", so the "diaper cover"'s were probably also called "rubber panties" as a generic term for any wateproof panty and may have been waterproofed with rubber. Thses were bought by person born anywhere from 1932 back to 1905 and waterproof panties not made of rubber ware, at best, 11 years old whereas rubber panties were arond for 79 years. Also here are some of the rubber panty related items from RUFFLES & RIBBONS GIRLS' HOME that are of general interest. They are either take-aways. come with take-away versions that you can get or care items. While this publication does reflect the RUFFLES & RIBBONS GIRLS' HOME esthetic, the esthetic is based on the universal; practical, traditional and historical aspects, like being more associated with girls than boys, and how come. Except for Section 6; which are pure "ABDL" and related for completness. The overwhelming bulk of this will be pretty much universally applicable. It was the practical that shaped the esthetic in terms of what "looks right" i.e. full cut with a wide crotch Below is an introductory tutorial by a user
INTRODUCTORY VIDEO TUTORIALS

FOR WHOM IS RUBBER PANTIES'R'US? Anyone who uses, is considering using, or is interested in, wetproof panties made from traditional baby panty materials of the late 1940's to the present. The focus is on the characteristics that would make then useful in any context, be it VLG/AB, DL or incontinence. You WILL find something of use here. Just what that is, is up to you. That includes pampers as one is well advised, and in the case of babies, parents are specifically advised to put rubber panties over the throw-aways, or IC: ANYONE who would have want or need for rubber panteies. They would not meet the esthetic or niche criteria if they did not meet the practical needs first. What made mothers use them on babies or little girls for long trips make them useful for ALL diaper situations. About long trips; the difference between little girls and boys that made diapers and rubber panties a girl thing is that, with a little boy and man, one could stop the car in a very empty area or next to a wooded area, both of which were plentiful in 1954, get out, go behind a tree and relieve oneself. Ladies and girls do not have that option. This was espcially significant before the Interstate system with its unheard of cruising speed of 60 miles an hour. Example: In 1965, from Fall River to Boston took about an hour down RT 24 at 60 miles per hour. in 1955 it took two hours down RT 138 at 40-45 miles per hour (35 in the numerous towns through which you passed like Somerset, Tauton, Easton, Canton, Stoughton and Mattapan). Also, there was another thing that is, well, child's play, at least where I came from. Boys woudl roam the area, when one needed to pee, he would find a secluded spot and go. Girls usually spent most of their time in small groups of 3 to 5 at the house of one of the group members. The parents of these girls lived through part or all of the Depression and were thrifty. A water or "light" bill of $6 was intolerable, Rent, collected weekly, was in the 7 to 10 USD range. This was also the time of the 5 gallon toilet. So if 2 or more of a group could not hold it COMFORTABLY for two hours, they were put in diapers and rubber panties. First, the mother did not want to have the bathroom tied up so much. Second two girls going to the toilet 3 times each in an afternoon; about 12:30 to about 4:45 would use an extr 30 gallons. This rule was generally applied to all girls under 8 years old. Girls were kept in diapers to a far older age than boys, up to 4 years daytime and 5 nighttime, under the idea that they were not as strong and were more likely to wet. Actually, it is a toss-up; girls run smaller than boys, with smaller bladders so they cannot hold as much and would need to go more frequently but on the other hand, a boy's urinary systme has an externally mounted component and is therefore more subject to external/internal temparature differences and be less stable by nature than the girl's fully internal system so girls may be more subject to daytime accidents, from my observations, boys tend to wet the bed more than gitrls, especially at the onset of puberty when the physical installation and implementation of the genital component of the "uro-genital system" creates more instability: And do not even talk to me about Benign Prostate Hyperplasia (enlargement as in "gotta get up 3 times a night to pee" along with always having to keep an eye out for the nearest restroom to go on short notice and the dreaded "dribbles ['No matter how much you wiggle; no matter how much you dance, no matter how much you jiggle, the last (and often first) drops end up in your pants']"), a normal part of turning 52; it would be a good idea to make an underpant that is like a training pant with a fly front. Also girls played with dolls, which included changing them so diapers and rubber panties were part of a girl's kit. And a girl felt twice-blest if she had in her "dolly box" one or mor "real [person sized]" rubber panties. In fact, the last I saw of the semi-transparent ones that I remember being put on me before I was 3 was in one of my girl cousin's dolly box when I was 9 or 10. When I was about 11 in 1957, the girl next door, 7, who had had a bit of a crush on me since she was 5, had real corn yellos snap-on baby panties in a box that had many of her playthings. Who has not seen THIS iconic trope? When a boy misbehaved, how many times was he threatened with being put in his '...baby SISTER'S diaper and PINK rubber panteis"; at which point a 6 or 7 year old little superhero's legs turned to jelly. So rubber panties were perceptably more of a girl thing. Beyond that, lacking a front fly which makes them properly a panty and being made of a very smooth material, like satin only more so, they tend toward the feminine in this culture. But what makes them useful makes them good which makes them valuable in ALL contexts in which they are used: Whether for Baby Bobby or Betty, Toddler Tina, Bedwetter Billy, Little Linda, Sissyboy Sara, DL Dave, Inco Ichabod or Cloth Clementine and Pampers Peter. Where the Little Girl interest plays is in the esthetics and accoutrements; in this publication; babydolls, which would be of concern to both Very Little Girls and Sissies, with a limited Little Boy perspective "...your little sister's diaper, PINK rubber panties and babydoll" Kryptonite, anyone? But those are "in addition to [and in the niche section]" and have no effect on the basic efficacy of rubber panties

WHY "RUBBER" PANTIES? For those who need to know, rubber panties are used mostly over cloth diapers but they can be used over any kind of underwear bottoms if a level of protection is desired. Dating back to at least 1871 and still preferred by enough to make a market, they are the most successful containment garment of choice in history. These are the traditioanl materials, rubber and vinyl, that have done the job for, as the subtitle says 150 years; so why change? the newcomers are polyurethane, PEVA and PUL. Polyurethane is a newcomer, while more durable, the feel of the material, "rubbery", but not the same as real rubber. PEVA is also a newcomer. I got some of these for my Dollies and when I felt them two words came to mind. "garbage bags" and even the dolls wanted no part of them :). Other examples of the material felt like low-grade/poor quality baby panties; that is, horribly chintzy. PUL or Polyurethane Lamninate. This joins the ranks of textiles that are said to be waterproof, most of which, as baby panties have failed, either leaking or, like many conposite materials that are not priced in the stratosphere, decompose into their basic constituent materials. Polyurethane Laminate is alos a composite, The chief advantage of which is being "breathable", 1. If you are wearing and wetting significantly thick diapers, this is irrelevetn since the thckness of material will render the whole un-breathable. 2. There have been reports of PUL panties leaking. This makes sense because: 3. If the material is "breathing", it breathes out as well as in. It is liquid proof but "gas permeable". this is fine for rainwear, which deals only in H2O. Bodily ejecta is made of many things and compounds, these vaporize and condense at different temperatures. Things that vaporize at body temperature escape through gas-permeable materials, then once even slightly away from the body, condense and, now being outside the panty, get on the material and clothes. the non-textile materials, not being woven, are a single, continuous film of material and not gas permeable (unless you are talking about Hydrogen and maybe Helium) so they trap everything. The better sorts of these materisl. polyurethane and PUL, cost more than the traditional materials: High-quality rubber will be in the same price range and decent pure latex will be higher. Beyond that, the traditional materials have a proven track record of safe perfomrance for a century and a half. Why go through the effort, time and cost trying to re-invent the wheel? We are told that this material is bad for us and for the things around us


Apparently, vinyl is not only safe, but beneficial

DEVELOPMENT: One may think that adult wetproof panties were just an extension and upsizing of babywear. Though the two were related, that was not the case. The Biggest difference was that with baby panties, there was no real want or need ot hide the fact that the baby was in thick diapers. With adults, incontinence was overwhelmingly at least VERY embarrassing and, rightly or wrongly, spoke to one's competence. The biggest factor was that plastic, though called "rubber" by most persons, was not stretchy like rubber. This dictated a different shape with a fuller cut. As I remember, being from a large, growing extended family between about 1949 and '56, and paying attention to the things around me; back in the early days, before I was 7 years old, baby panties were different. It was like they were made of two rear halvess joined together rathere than the legs-forward "fittted" or "tailored" style. In use they looked like 15th century "Pantaloons" or "slops"; full cut all thw way around with ultra-short "legs". They still had a wide crotch. The fit was adjusted by Mommy when the little one was diapered, sometimes the waistband and legbands were tucked under the diaper or left as is with the material extending well above and below the diaper by about 1/2 to 3/4 inch But that was before prefolds. Do not forget, also, the first plastic panties were homemade; I do not know of any cmmercially made before 1947 and reports of homemade ones go back to the middle of the War when rubber was being rationed. It was most likely that mothers sumply folded and cut the material to shape with the front and back being equal rather than trimming one sidd (the front) more finely. She would also want it to accommodate more than one diaper and growth of the baby so that she would not need to keep making new ones every 3 months or so. If I recall aright, even some of the earliest manufactured ones were not "fitted" and some of the adult ones sold by "Agape", the precursor to A.C. Medical were not with forward-facing leg openings in the 1990's. Also, the earlier ones had leg openings that were noticeably less sharply angled from the crotch to the sides as later. A 1948 baby panty would be about 5" at the sides and crotch with an unstreched waist about the same across, which in adult size would be about 12-14". These were also called "baby bloomers", but they were not bloomers. I once heard "baby pantaloons", which they were more like than bloomers. The re-shaping came about with thinner prefold diapers and less showiness was desired. So, over the course of about 4 years, they went from the very full "pantaloon" style to a kind of panty style, though full-cut, less so and with the forward facing legs to accommodate the center-bulked, narrower dipaers In the case of adult incontinence, things were different. Showiness would always be an issue and clothes would be made to accommodate this matter. Adult diapers would be less bulky at the sides and more between the legs, ultimately resulting in more padding between the legs and very little at the sides and various designs to ease changing. cumlminating in the Salki Pro-Pant and the polyurethane line Salk Sani-Pant, with it's adhsive, throw-away liner in the middle 1960's. Kleinert's still made a full-coverage plastic panty even up to the 1980's and medical institutions still used diapers and companies like Comco made plastic pants and absorbent cloth items to go with them up until 2013
In the early days of plastic panties, in the early 1950's, the material was looked upon as a miracle fabric and was being used shower curtains, kitchen curtains, drapes, aprons and bedspreads along with other things This was also a time when there were more local and regional companies either making the material or products with it. There were trade names conoting their virtues, such as DuraPrufe or EZ-Kare. Other trade names referenced luxurious fabrics such as French Satin, RosEtte, Taffeteen and FlowerPetal. I can just imagine some mother trying to diaper her 7 year old little girl for a long trip, as was done quite often, and the little one saying that she did not want to wear baby rubber panties and Mommy saying "Oh, these are not rubber , they are made from French Satin: [which would appeal to a little girl, as would 'TaffeTeen', 'RosEtte' or 'FlowerPetal']" and shows the label or package to the little girl, "See?". It would be like the somewhat common practice of serving liver to a kid and calling it "beefsteak"

> HISTORY OF RUBBER PANTIES you may have to look for the one(s) that apply to what you wan
MORE HISTORY THIS TIME oRIENTED TO ADULT PRODUCTIS

RUBBER PANTY HALL OF FAME
A look at early rubber baby panty ads from 1871 to 1950

2. Selection and Care


RUBBER PANTIES FOR DUMMIES: When you were a baby or little, none of this mattered to you and you knew nothing about it, since Mommy bought, decided which rubber panties to put on you and took care of them. She learend all of this by the time she was 10 by playing with her baby dolls and making believe she was their mommy, plus she was taught and advised by older girls/cousins, aunts, neighborhood ladies and the like: It was built in to her world. So she was ready and able to make all the decisions at the right time and do all that was needed. Also, more little girls had full-size rubber panties among their playthings than boys; to my direct knowledge, about 12 to 0; and Heaven help the little boy who did! Between parents and friends; it was definitely 40 miles of bad road. So it is a good bet that, like Sgt. Schultz, you see nothing and you know nothing: ESPECIALLY if you are not a girl or raised with a strong feminine presence in your life. Now, since throw-away diapers have been a thing beginning 50 years ago, in a time of prosperity that no longer exists, cloth diapers and rubber panties are now a forgoteen art even among Gen-X and Millennial girls though they are a better option long term. Now, YOU must make those decisions. In all likelihood, you do not have a clue and are already grown (groan?) up. Or, you may have no experience with cloth diapers at all and need to learn from the ground up. RUBBER PANTIES'R'US has you...erm...covered for the basics. The rest will come with practice. You will also have to learn to take care of diapers but RUBBER PANTIES'R'US is mostly about the rubber panties with some basic material about the other things. There is more direct information on how-to choose and care for rubber panties than your mommy would or even could, tell you, or would be willing to share with you if you were a boy unless she thought it would be cute or was in a strange mood, and what you would get from caring for a baby doll if you were a little girl. The only reason I got so much is that I was raised half-gilrl because of my severe eyesight impairment, and I think analytically. That is because they were not taught it explicitly in words. They were mostly shown or taught by example: "Don't do that": "Do this". Also, between the ages of 12 and 20 they did some babysitting, which amounted to practice. The advantage they had was that it was a build-up over more than a decade to the point of being second nature. Here, you have it all at once. Also Mommy was not using this on herself like you will be. Beyond that, this is just "Rubber Panties 101". There are probably "tips and tricks" that I have no knowledge of that were common knowledge back in 1950 or '65

MORE THAN ONE AT A TIME? That was recommended in DPF (Diaper Pail Fraternity; later Friends) a few times. It was often done in the 1950's at night for extra protection and perents did threaten to "put 3 rubber panties on you like a baby girl becuaw you are such a baby wetter". If you expect to go a long time between changes; 7 hours or more, even in thick diapers, that is a good idea. The recommendation was to put rubber over plastic. You can use as many as you want and each panty DOES improve the situation. I have heard of those who use the plastic, then rubber than a plastic panty with a design or one that matches a nightgown. I use the LL Medico/Gary snap on and the Babykins Original Rubber Pants (all reviewed below). As you move around over time, the elastic leg openings will change position and may change position in such a way that they will allow some leakage after a few hours. A second pair that is independent of the first will be more stable. For convenience, I change into very thick diapers about 3 hours before bedtime and change out an hour or so after I get up. I sometimes find a little wetness between the panties. Some years back, I saw a site that recommended 4 or 5 panties for infants/toddlers, 3 or 4 for children 3 to 6 years old, and otherwise 2

HOW TO EVALUATE RUBBER PANTIES

FIRST: You get what you pay for! And you pay for what you do not get, but in a different coin. The first corner to be cut is Quality Control, which relates to material, build, fit and shipping and handling. If you do not think those are important, just wait until something rips at the seam when you put it on for the first time, or just plain is too small despite the fact that you specifically ordered the right size or it leaks lie a sieve. Been there, done that, got the torn panties
HOW MANY To GET? That depends on how thorough you want to be. As a rule of thumb, a minimum of 4 panties per dozen diapers with a maximum of 8 for ordinary use. Any more is just for optional use or personal taste; I have over 50. Use 1 per day and throroughly rinse at the end of the day when you change into clean ones. Som persons wear two. A good quality rubber over plastic. If that is what you wish to do, then add three rubber (Babykins is best at this time) for each 4 panties. These figures I give, 4 and 3, leave room for one spare; just in case. This was recommended in DPF (the definitive early diaper organization). If you choose to do that, it would be best if the inner pair were snap-on. Those are easier to wipe down with a damp cloth or sponge at each changing since you will not have to pull them all the way down to get them off and pull them all the way up to put them back on. Some persons change the panties with the diaper so they have one panty for each diaper
WHAT TO GET: Genereally, good quality, well-sized plastic or rubber pull-on or snap-on panties will be the best, though, under special conditions, you might want cloth-lined panties, usually flannel or terry to wear over throw-away diapers in bed to deal with leaks. Some persons who wear throw-aways use a low-cut or "bikini" panty. Avoid the "integrated shell and liner" such as "rhumba", "frillies" or "fancy" panties; ("rhumba panties" also callede "frillies" are rubber panties with an outer shell of thin, silky material like nylon the back of which has 3 or 4 rows of lace ruffles and a ribbon tied in a bow just under the waistband, this seems to be mostly a BDSM "sissybaby [humiliation by being dressed and treated as a baby and specifically, to make it much the worse, a baby girl, recalling the image of the 6 year old boy being threatened with being put in his baby sister's 'diaper and pink rubber panties' which was a real thig in the 1950's and early '60's]" thing than anything else. I do not recall them being used with real infants or toddlers). This recommendation comes from baby care experts who say that if either the shell or liner tear, the whole panty is no good. They recommend using a separate panty and rubber panty so that when the child is out of diapers, the panties can be used on their own. If you do use a flannel or terry lined panty to guard against leaks; if both parts are of good quality, then there should be no problem with tearing but since there is only a tiny amount of waste product, PUL would be perfectly fine and preferred for reasons of care. Avoid the AIO (All In One), along with the integrated shell and liner problem, the problem of using two materials, once that can be machine-dried and one that can not, the fit cannot be as exact as separate diaper and panty and they have a long-term bad repuation. The best bet is the separate diaper and panty, since each is held up by its own waist; the diapers have the pin and the panties have the elastic waist. The two work together to keep things in place. If you do use ANY two-part panty, be it cloth-lined, shell-and-liner or AIO, then a major issue will be cleaning them. The traditional waterproof materials are not, as a rule, dryer-safe, and air-dry quickly. Any cloth parts are quite happy to go in the dryer, but, especially with thick flannel or terry liners, will take forever to air-dry and outdoor clotheslines are becoming a thing of the past. Besides that, how many of you would want rubber pnaties of any kind out there for all to see? If you feel you must use a cloth-lined panty, turn them insidie out to expose more of the cloth to the air. Also shell-and-liner requre more work to clean that plain rubber pantie wnich can get by with a good rinse most of the time. hI have none of these in my inventory

MATERIAL: Generally speaking thicker material, measured in mil: 1/1,000 of an inch, or gauge, is better. It does not tear as easily as thin material. For the longest time baby panties were made of about 4 mil. Relative to baby panties, the lenght and width would be about one and a half to twice as large for adult size panties. The equivalent of that would be 6 to 8 mil. So I would say that you should start at 4 mil. For rubber, baby panties were latex and quite stretchy but I would start at 10 guage thick and prefer 14 to 16 if not using latex
Smooth material is better. The rollers that extruded the material into sheets were of higher quality. For 65 years. the items made of smooth material sold at a higher price tha those of grainy material; be they panties, shower curtains, raincoats or tabilcoths. They started to have special terms for the grainy material over the last 52 or 3 years, like "embossed" or "taffeta" to make that sound like it was deliberately done. In the early years, from the late 1940'sto the middle '50's, items made of the smoth material were said to be made of things like "TaffeTeen", Rose-ette", FlowerPetal" and "French Satin [which almost became a trade name, synonymous with'plastic', used in the textile industry]". I can just imagine the scene of a mother telling her 5 year old little girl that she was not going to put "rubber panties" on her, but ones made of French Satin; akin to telling her that the meat on the plate mixed in with pieces of onion is not liver, but "beefsteak": I have seen THAT one, too (just how she would try to con a little boy, I have no idea). It is intuitively clear that the smooth material is easier to clean since the sur face is uniform with no place for foreign material to collect. I have also heard this from a few sellers. It was the way the smooth material felt like latex that enabled the new plastic panties to be called "rubber panties" with the term sticking for good with the non technically mided

SIZE and SHAPE the figures you want to see (given examples are for waist size of 36"). However, getting the right fit may be a bit more complex than just the waist size so there are several figures to look at. A.C. Medical used to have two lines of panties, Susan and Christy, that were of the same material with the same measuremnts, the difference being that the Christy had wider leg openings. RearZ appears to carry that on. I have seen persons complain that while the waist fit, the leg openings were too narrow and they needed to do a custom order. I got some Gary panties for my dolls. The waist was snug but the legs were totally too large and their legs are perfectly well proportioned to their bodies. So these are the figures to look at

  1. Waist size is where you start. A range 6 TO 10 inches of each size is best, with Med to include 36", which could be anything form 32"-38" to 32"-42". Some companies have a large size range and a small differential in size range; like Small; 28"-40". Med; 30"-42". Lg; 32"-44"... 3XL; 38-50. A not so good arrangement is one like this; Med; 30"-34", Lg; 36"-40". This kind was used by Comco. Though my waist is 36", I can use the Small to 3XL From L.L. Medico because the unstretched elastic is narrow enough to stll fit, and it would depend on the leg opening size, crotch width or side seam if I want a little extra. Of the aforementioned L.L. Medico, I could fit into the 5XL (the largest available size) except that the leg openings are too loose; the waist would be fine. Oversize if you can; it puts lsess strain on the elastics which will make them last longer and lessen any "elstic bite". A big size overlap is desireable because it offeres more choices in fullness of the body of the panty for the same size waist, which allows for differeent diaper thicness: For daytime you may want 30"-38" and night time, 34"-42". Both will fit a waist size 36".Or, you may just get the larger size since it will fit over all your diapers and keep it simple. All my rubber panties are pretty much the same size; the most full-cut that I can fit itn
  2. Crotch width: At LEAST 10" but the wider the better I use 12 or more
  3. Leg opening range. At the waist, For me, a Gary 5XL will stay up, but loosly, but the leg openings are too large
  4. Side seam length from waist to leg opening at the shortest point or hip size over diapers. At LEAST 10". I use 12" or more, about the same as crotch width. Some panties have a crotch width greater than the side seam. If the lower figure is adequate then that is no problem. Some companties list a hip size instead of a side seam lenght. This is WITH the diaper on. For a hip size, I use 44" as a minimum. Either isgood since a longer side seam makes a wider hip size and a wider hip size means ad longer side seam
  5. High-waist or high back is preferred but you can get regular proportined panties that will fit with a long enough side seam so that this will not be a problem covering the diaper with some to spare. This specification was not part of baby panties as they were not trying to be discreet and were full-cut all around. So if that is your model then just get them with a long side seam. There is also something called "lowriders" and "bikini". These have a side seam that is much shorter than the basic model and are primarily for use over disposable protection. Back in the early 1950's, if a chid was prone to small 'accidents", a pare of the baby panties would be put over the noraml underwarte. If that is true for you, then lowriders/bikini would suit that purpose perfectly well
  6. SHAPE: There is a positive relation between the panty "hip size", which might be used instead of "side seam", to which it is equivalent save that it refers to the size of the hips PLUS the diaper, and the thickness, therefore, "capacity" of the cloth diapers that a panty canaccommodte. Unless you need a snug fit and are willing to trade capacity for that, rubber panties should be "full cut" or "blousey", "billowy" or "balloony" to some degree. This makes them able to fit over thick or multiple diapers

CARE OF RUBBER PANTIES
CARE: Rubber panties are pretty robust. Some things made of this kind ofmaterial in the late'40's to the mid '50's were identified as being made of EasyKare and Dura-Pruf. Generally it resists stanins with rare exceptions like facal matter. There are some things you will want to keep the material away from to avoid deterioration like hardening and cracking which some variants of the materil will resist more than others. These include Read the care instructions at the seller's website if there are any. Be sure to wash your rubber panties, diapers or anything before using. This removes anything that they might have picked up along the way as well as things that were put on them to aid in storage and shipping

CLEANING For the most part, They do well by being rinsed in tepid water right after use and let to dry by being hung on a drying hanger that I will explain later. However, it is good to wash then fairly often in warm water. The materials that I have were well tested for use with the BabyDoll line of products, having been left in constant contact for 3 days in some cases with no noticeable effect. Rubber panties can be washed with the Bubble Bath (there is now a BabyDoll Rubber Panty Wash that is the same without the expensive skin therapeutic additives that make BabyDoll a premium bubble bath. UPDATE There is now no difference between the Bubble Batn and the Rubber Panty Wash because I have reformulated things and the glycerin and other therapeutics have been put in their own product, BabyDoll Body, Bath and Baby Oil, becuase they were interfering with the bubbling in the Bubble Bath) and whenever hung to dry, use the BabyDoll spray and you can also spray them when putting them inside of anything like a bag or drawer. There is nothing that says"little girl's rubber panties" more than the scent that is the hallmark of everything BabyDoll. Can you just imagine what it would do to a little Superboy wannabe, seeing and smelling the BabyDoll line of DIY products, knowing they are for HIM? At best "baby"; at worst "baby girl": Pink Kryptonite! Hopefully with enough use, the BabyDoll smell will become permanent. You can make a rubber panty cleaner in the same way as the Bubble Bath but leavin out the aloe and glycerin to save money. You can also use Dreft or anything recommended and/or sold for that purpose by the company from which you buy the panties.. Be sure to rinse well after washing.
In fact THIS IS A GOOD SET OF RULES TO FOLLOW FOR JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING YOU WEAR THAT IS WASHABLE

DRYING: You should have a bar over the bathtub that will take hangers. Here is a design for a special hanger. If you use regular hangers, water will collect in the crotch. If you could hang them upside down, then all of the water would run out of the waist opening. You can make a special hanger that will allow you to do just that quite easily and inexpensively

Get some of those plastic hangers that are dirt cheap and all over the place or visit your local thrift store

Clip one of the ends so that it is open like this

Run the free end through the leg opeings so the panties are upsdie down
Hang on the bar over the bathtub and let dry. Again, If you have a cloth-lined panty, turn them inside out to expose the cloth to the air; the waterproof part will drip-dry

FINAL STEP: As a generally protective measure, some places reccomend dusting rubber and rubber panteis with powder, originally talcum; which appears to be a victim of a school of greedy shysters (the Google page had at least three lawsuit ads before I go to this, despite the fact that I lead the search with "american medical association", "class action" is the telltale fin sticking out of the water) according to THIS REPORT, as covered in late 2019 but lost in the impeachemtn news. I do not know how these materials respond to cornstarch You should certainly dust the inside so that it will not stick to any part of the body where it comes into contact. I would avoid things like Armor-All and anything that leaves a coating

3. RELATED: The Perfect Companions for Rubber panties

CLOTH DIAPERS
While rubber panties should be a must over disposable diapers, as recommended by baby care and home economics experts as well as the companies that sell the diapers, they are an absolute necessity with cloth diapers, which existed for many centuries before rubber panties and which those were invented to cover. Are they better as a main diaper? You be the judge
ECONOMY: CLOTH DIAPERS VS DISPOOSABLE

STABILITY: I have heard sooo many persons complain that a specific model of disposable has been either discontinued outright, been replaced by or, while having the same model name, been made, less effective. A look at the history of cloth diapers shows them to be either stable or being imporoved in ways that matter over time and you can STILL get what you had, or, if need or want be, make your own, which many did even in the 1940's and 50's

SELF-CONTAINED:

BUYING CLOTH DIAPERS: What you should know
TYPES OF CLOTH DIAPERR -- HOW TO FOLD AND SEW THEM - A DIY for making your own diapers
CARE OF CLOTH DIAPERS While it is about baby diapers, cloth diapers are cloth diapers. Though I can get by without any smell not using soap by using wash in cool water and a double-rinse cycle if I do so right after use
GOOGLE SEARCH: folding methods and charts
HISTORY OF CLOTH DIAPERS
Christine's special DIAPERS
DAILY DIAPERS CLOTH DIAPER SUBFORUM Listed here because it is not directly accesible from the main forum page

FASTENERS: Obviously, cloth diapers need to be held in place This generally means some method of adustiong for size and securing them. The following list coveres about 99% of what is used to do this

I use 3 inch pins. 2 inch baby diaper pins are not as strong, so they bend and otherwise distort in shape and are soon ineffective. Snaps and strips do not allow fine ajdustments to fit well, and strips lose their grab after awhile. Snappi or the like are new and the "how to use" is not intuitively obvious "on sight" to me. Since I already have something that has worked and has been well understood for over a century. Why re-invent the wheel and have to leanrn a new skill just to do what was being satisfactorilly done for 5 generations? Also I have heard that Snappis tear the fabric on occasion. So none of this sounds like a good deal to me; I have a life. The companies that sell diapers usually sell both the 2 and 3 inch pins. I recommend the 3 inch pins; they are what I use myself

They look the same; only scaleed up by 1/3

BEDDING; Especially RUBBER SHEETS

Rubber sheets are divided into two kinds, based on their size and function. The first, just called a "rubber sheeet" is big enough to cover the entier mattress, usually under the bottom textile sheet. However, some parents in the 1940's and 50's, not wanting to have to change a "bottome" sheet for minor leaks, had the little one sleep directly on it, usually with a dusting of baby powder or household cornstarch to prevent the stickies, so that all that needed to be done was just wipe or damp-wipe it to remove wet spots, let it air out a bit, then make the bed. The second is called a "draw sheet" and is usually the width of a mattress with quite a bit to spare in length and about a yard to a metre wide. This is laid lengthwise across the bed over the bottom textile sheet to protect it, tucked in on both ends and maybe covered the middle 45 to 60 per cent of the bed from about the lower chest to the lower thigh or more, depending on the size of the sleeper. It might be left as is or covered with abosrbant cloth. Given the likelihood of disposable diapers to leak, at least this is an absolute must. It is also a good idea to have a few of these handy for other things like protecting furniture and the like. In fact, a good supply of rubber sheeting was recommended in the 1958 instruction manual for building and supplying a fallout shelter when that was a thing
THE RUBBER SHEET

4. Product Reviews and Shoppin
Primarily rubber panties but it can be diapers, rubber sheets, providers,or babydolls or the like: NO scat, enema, butt plugs, dildos, purely BDSM items, NO medical or mental health topics: KEEP IT CLOSELY RELATED TO RUBBER PANTIES! This is an AB/DL/IC/Little page,. NOTE: RUBBER PANTIES'R'US is meant to be the Gold Standard for this topic!!! SO: THE REVIEWS ARE SOLELY THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THEIR AUTHORS!! Little Christine is responsible for only this page and material posted under that name. Others reviews are included by specific arrangement or with permission of the author

by LITTLE CHRISTINE
NOTES: My personal set of characteristics include "esthetic" aka "look and feel" - literally. Are they like the panties used on a baby or "little", most often "jumbo", "super size" or "Big Baby" panties that could fit, with diapers, a 10 year old boy of medium build or sometimes made for the post-toddler age group, ranging form 6 to 14 years, in the 1948-1954 timeframe. This also included "diaper punishment", "rubber panty punishment" or "rubber baby punishment". This would start with the "practical" characteristics listed in the evaluation part, since that is what would be important, having been used on the little, and any siblings, as a baby, toddler or bedwetter, or readily available to buy. Those characterisitics would be the overwhelming bulk of consideration because they answered "yes" to the question "will these panties do the job?". The shape, full and "blousey" to accommodate 2 or 3 diapers if needed, has become the classic "rubber panty" shape. As for the plastic pants, the smooth material was, at that time, just about all there was and its special feel was how come they were called "rubber panties" for over 3 generations by "real people". So I would choose the thick, smooth material and would not even consider the grainy, which arrived in any significant numbers in 1954, and were considered cheap and inferior; for poor people. So the Lang and mainline Babykins (which has enough other things to be a Gold-seal company), while very serviceable would not meet my full set of standards. While I might mention them in a company review, I would not review them. These standards pertain to me alone. Unless you share them to some degree, your choice to rate items in your review is yours alone. 95% of my esthetic properties are the practical ones in 1951. At that time, there were no esthetic judgements by parents because they had not been thought up yet or even imagined to exist; "esthetic" just was not an issue. It would be like asking your parents or grnadparents in 1955 what their choice of a home computer would be or a lifelong blind person their favorite color. In practice these qualities served a purpose. If they chose to diaper bedwetters, parents would want something that was full enough to cover multiple or very thick diapers. and since the child was under the covers, the bulk would not show so it did not matter. In 1952, if a family had children under 8, it was common to diaper the girl for trips over 2 hours, which not uncommon before the age of the mile-a-minute Interstate System. Also, if there were 2 oe 3 girls unnder 8, generally considered the age at which a person could hold it comfortably for two hours, in a group visiting the home of one of the members, they would be well diapered to prevent accidents and to keep the bathroom from being tied up or avoid excessive flushing of the toilet (5 gallons at a time); at that time a water or "light" bill of $6/month was fightin' words. So rubber panties were bought with the girl as the primary user; often pink and since she would be wearing a dress, the bulk would not matter. This made them a vaguely "for girls" item. If, for some quite unusual reason, they were put on the boy, he just had to live with it this once. If he was about to cause a problem, then he would be told that some would be gotten especially for him and that people would be let to know by such things as them being left around and if anyone asked, they would be told those were his and he could expect to be made to use them enough to justify the purchase so shut up. And he better not harrass his sister or he could expect the same treatment and being taken along to shop for his own diapers and pink rubber panties; which I know about being carried out only once and we were shown the "goods" in front of the poor creature: I kept my trap tightly shut; having horrific visions of my aunt saying to me "How would you like some?": I was not going to give her any ideas! Even at 7, I was no dummy. I do not know what kind of scene he made, but it had to be a whopper. Many of the panties I review are made with clear material. For any who may question the authenticity of such, here is an excerpt from the description of a Sears layette in 1950. It is repeated from above

Clck on image to see layettes and a description

Click on the Seal of Approval at the bottom of the review page to see its explanation: PREVIEW. ORDER OF APPEARANCE DOES NOT RELATE TO PREFERENCE IN ANY WAY! It just shows the order in which I was able to get the itms. Evaluation of the item is in a letter grade and the color of the seal of approval. Any of these will quite adequately meet all the standards of RUFFLES & RIBBONS GIRLS' HOME for practical and estheti properties; so they will meet yours

PANTIES
!!!NOTE WELL: SOME COMPANIES, LIKE PROTEX MOVE THEIR ITEM PURCHASE PAGE SO THAT IF I LINKED TO IT DIRETLY, IT WOULD NOT BE THERE AND ONE GETS A "404 NOT FOUND" (I learned that the hard way and had to fix things at the review page). So the best I can do is link to a page from which you can select the item. ALSO, YOU MAY FIND THE ITEM OUT OF STOCK OR SOLD OUT!!!
  1. Brooks; was I CAN'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT GERBER
  2. TUFFY II (8 mil)
  3. BABYKINS
  4. LL MEDICO 7 MIL PULL-ON PANTIES
  5. LL MEDICO SNAP-ON PANTIES
  6. BABYKINS ORIGINAL RUBBER PULL-ON PANTS
OTHER ITEMs-- Things related to, or used with rubber panties
  1. BABYKIS RUBBER SHEET
  2. ADULT SIZE DIAPER PINS
  3. BABY POWDER RATINGS Most persons using diapers and rubber panties use baby powder because of its iconic scent
COMPANY REVIEWS
CHRISTINE'S RATING SYSTEM Preview

OTHERS' REVIEWS
Given that you are not as picky as I am about rubber patnies or associated items. Still, a reveiw is not just a puff piece. Its aim is to be informative to be of use to anyone. It should include the link to where to get the item, description; purpose, appearance, materials (feel), things like that why you like it with a recognizable format overall rating (letter grade, stars, 0 to 10, etc) and either a link to the order page or other picture. The best place to put it is in Product Revies>Washables

PANTIES
COMPANY REIVIEWS
Again; the purpose is to be useful by being informative. While I use a more formized and detailed approach, You should do some listing of things like general information with a link to the site, how wide a product line does it offer; AB/DL aware/friendly, how easiy is it to navigate the site, purchase, maybe wait time, comments and an overall site rating in a recognizable format (see above). Or a warning if it is either bogus or tainted by things like Pedophia. The best place to put it is in Product Reviews>Store/Company Reviews

DAILY DIAPERS GENERAL PRODUCT REVEWS - All Products & Companies discussed in this forum and associated subforums

NOW YOU ARE READY TO SHOP (THE PICTURES ARE LINKS)

Most of these places sell other things too; diapers, large pins (Recommended), etc. Though I do update, this is the WWWeb and things disappear without warning. That has happened to Fetware, B4NS and Baby-Pants.Com. So if you open a link and find nobody home, well, this IS the interwebs
REARZ L.L.Medico Drylife BABYKINS /www.plastic-pants.com/Mountain View Products PROTEX ADULT CLOTH DIAPERS CHANGING TIMES DIAPERS EBAY

5. Join the Conversation
More than 3 dozen already existing threads about those very special undies: A wide range of subjects running from the practical to the esthetic; from "Rubber panties for Dummies" to the very exotic. Do not be afraid to "necro" a thread, that is better here than starting a new one about a subject that already has threads. Consider this a sort of slow chatroom for rubber panties with ongoing conversations. Go HERE to sign up at Daily Diapers (Recommended)
  1. CLOTH DIAPERS and PANTIES subforum - Since this forum is aboutcloth diapers and panties and is nested in two subforums, I have put it here for easy access
  2. PLASTIC PANTS DEFINITION
  3. ELASTICS - Discussion of the Various Materials Used for the Waist and Leg Openings as well as Other Matters of Design and Construction of Rubber Panties
  4. FIRST RUBBER PANTS
  5. PLASTIC PATNS IN THE 1950'S
  6. DO YOU REMEMBER PLASTIC PANTS WHEN...
  7. "RUBBER" JUST WILL NOT GO AWAY
  8. PLASTIC PANTS
  9. SNAP ON PLASTIC PANTS
  10. PLASTIC PANTS: DO THEY HELP WITH LEAKS?
  11. VIP/GERBER VINYL PANTS EQUIVALENT
  12. PLASTIC/RUBBER PANTS FITTING
  13. VINYL, PLASTIC OR RUBBER PANTS
  14. PLASTIC PVC PANTS
  15. PLASTIC PANTS, WICKING WHILE SLEEPING
  16. HOW OFTEN DO YOU CHANGE PLASTIC PANTS
  17. SOME FOLKS STILL DO IT THE OLD-FASHONED WAY
  18. RUBBER PANTY HANGERS
  19. TREASURE FROM A DROG SOTRE
  20. HEAVY DUTY PLASXTIC PANTS
  21. HARD AND CRACKLING
  22. PLASTIC PANTS
  23. TYPE OF PLASTIC PANTS
  24. BEST PLACE FOR PLASTIC PANTS
  25. fOR THE LOVE OF PLASTIC PANTS
  26. NOW IT CAN BE TOLD: The story of one of the most traumatic events in ABDL history -- And its happy ending and a determined little girl: No dumb blonde here
  27. COMCO REPLACEMENT More on the story above
  28. LANG PLASTIC PANTS FORM LIFESTYLES EMPORIUM
  29. PLASTIC PANTS ONLY - NO DIAPER
  30. NEW TO USING PLASTIC PANTS
  31. HOW MANY WEAR 2 PLASTIC PANTS
  32. VINYL PLASTIC OR RUBBER PANTS
  33. DO YOU REMEMBER RUBBER PANTIES BEING ON YOU?
  34. WEST MIDLANDS PLASTIC PANTS
  35. PLASTIC PANTS from GENERAL
  36. DOES ANYONE LOVE TO WEAR JUST PLASTIC PANTS?
  37. PLASTIC PANTS 2 GENERAL
  38. NICE PLASTIC PANTS COLLECTION
  39. Real Old Fashion Rubber Baby Pants
  40. MORE RUBBER PANTIES ON THE MARKET SINCE ABDL
  41. I Did Not Know This About Rubber Pants Comments about a practice some 4 generations ago
  42. Often used for pictures of layettes and rubber panties are old Sears and other catalogs
  43. HAVE YOU TRIED BLOOMER STYLE PLASTIC PANTS
  44. DREAM PLASTIC PANTS - "what design works best for needs and wants?" discussion

If you have any questions about what you see here You can

Any Questions about the foregoing? ASK LITTLE CHRISTINE


IF YOU ARE NOT AB, DL, LG, SISSY, OR RELATED, YOU NEED NOT GO BEYOND THIS POINT!*; ADULT MATERIAL
*But you are going to go there anyway: Right; you kinky little perve? :)

6. Fun & Gamres in the World of Rubber Panties
Since there is no getting around it, Might as well address it directly

images are links


GET THE RUBBER PANTY SCREENSAVER
SEE MORE

If there were not something "wrong" or humiliating (infantile?) about rubber panties, why do we see the following?

  1. So may places call them 'diaper covers". Protex uses the term "diaper cover" for some ahd "pants" for others
  2. Nearly all throw-away diaper companies brag about leak guards or other such nonsense, as numerouse posts to the forums on Daily Diapers complaining about leaks show, and not needing panties over them. AND so many people act as if that lie is true
  3. When Kanga came out with a nylon panty/pad system 3+ decades ago, a big do-do was made that they were not plastic, as though something was wrong with that, despite the fact that they were horrible. Also, over the last 80+ years, beginning with "Softex" in 1939 (see the Rubber Panty Hall of Fame), there has been attepts to do away with rubber panties for infants as well. All of which, to this day, exhibit some degree of failure

Rubber panteis, and the material itself has been mostly a girl thing. There are a number of reasons;
Why the material is considered the subject of a fetish, I have no idea. Satin and silk are not placed in that class. Satin bedsheets are considered a luxury

One of the better things about drying rubber panties over the bathtub is if you have a "Little [4 - 7]" and they are HER rubber panties, you can leave the shower curtain open or use a clear shower curtain, so the panties are in plain sight and if someone sees them, she will ask whose rubber panties they are, maybe even in front of Little: Watch her squirm as you tell a long story about how she is such an over-age wetter and it made no difference that it was common before the Interstate system that little girls up to age 8 were put in diapers for long trips. If it is a little boy, then the same story, ending in what a sissy or baby-girl he is. Littles hate hearing discussions about rubber panties; if they are THEIR rubber panties, or for fear that Mommy might just decide to get some and use them on Little. Another delicious scene is if they are Baby Sister's panties. Or Mommy's friend says how her Little has calmed down sicne she started using rubber panties on them. When Mommy says "Oh, I could NEVER do that to my Little...", Little KNOWS what is going to happen sometime soon. You have no idea of how many times I have seen these acted out in real life by real mommies from the time I was 5 until I was 17. When you have 10 aunts and uncles with an avagerage of 3 children each; about 30 cousins, most of who are your age or younger, it adds up: And that is just relatives. You learn quite a bit, and when I was 5 or 6, I was told once or twice that my aunt or uncle "would go to Town Drug and buy some rubber panteis" and I did not wet the bed but once when I was 9 or 10 and that was a fluke and nothing was made of it; so we know what THAT was about

ABDL ACCESSORIES
BABYDOLLS: The perfect way to dress your little rubber panty girl
MOUNTAIN VIEW "SMOCK" (TODDLER BIB)
BABYSTEPPER Restraining option
The RUBBER DIAPER the ultimate rubber baby girl item. Why, how to make and use

MORE
200 YEARS OF RUBBER
RUBBER LIFE: Amazon
RUBBER LIFE MAGAZINE

RUBBER PANTIES'R'US Advanced users club

AUTHOR NOTES
LITTLE CHRISTINE's name has been synomymous with "rubber panties" since joining the ABLG community in 1982 right to this day, having 7 decades of experience with them and related items. Known at A. C. Medical; providing much of the support, guidance and other input for the sanitary slip (waterproof skirts) in the mid 1990's to the mid 'aughts" that made that market for A. C., DPF, Wetville and Daily Diapers, Christine's association with these undies, and other things Rubber, spans 7 decades back to the age of 4, when her "blankie" was a piece of a rubber sheet between 1949 and '51. A look at Christine's Curriculum Vitea in the About Me shows a long active career in the ABDL community with RUFFLES & RIBBONS GIRLS' HMOE going back to 1999 in one form or other and was rated in the top 40% in both the DPF and Bytemine personal website ratings as well as being the "reference nursery' at Wetville, the centerpiece of a 900 member Yahoo Group, and in 2005 or 6, having parts of it being COPIED FROM by SISSYHAUS; a German sissy site (now defunct) as well as getting a few compliments form some of the staff at the Domain Name Service, Register Inc between 2013 and 2016. In the mid 1980's one of Christine's stories, at the request of "Mommy Carolyn", featruing her rubber panties as part of chastizement, was published to introduce one of Carolyn's models, appeared in an INFANTAE PRESS publicatio. In addition, Little Chistine also introduced the tiara fancy to Wetville and THE TRANSGENDER GUIDE, 1999, GIRLTALK TO, 2000, and DAILY DIAPERS, c2011, as well as introducing the iconic Fairy doll of GIRLTALK TO. In 2014, Christine led the successful search for the replacement for both the pull-on and snap-on successor to the very popular Comco panty when that ceased production in late 2013. From 2017 to the present, Christine has been the creative power behind the BabyDoll line of DIY cleaning, grooming and care items; including a premium bubble bath, for little girls. Christine is currently involved in restoring the babydoll to its status as a cutee, gender-based garment, suitable for general wear by little girls, away from the trashy, sexualized one. If it is anything to do with traditional little girl, Fairy, and, of course, rubber panties; especially in the feminine, at Daily Diapers, you can usually find Christine's little hand in it. You can keep up with Little Christine's activities HERE

Little Christine Daryleanne Paradise Is The AB/Very Little Girl Real Deal
ALL ABOUT LITTLE CHRISTINE - use the picture link to learn more about Little Christine: Description, albbums, blog, posts and clubs